and then eventually wound up moving to san francisco with time. >> and what was steve jobs like then? >>. >> it's probably, steve is probably an example of like many, many people, of the truism that you never take the boy out of the man. and so many of the traits that people became familiar with in the last few years of his life were on full display 30 years ago. spectacular communicator, a wonderful salesman. a man on messianic mission when he set his mind to srtion, a task master, a disciplinarian, a man who is difficult to please. but also-- and very difficult, obviously as well. but also an extraordinarily mesmerizing figment captivating figure. probably without doubt the most interesting person i met, ever in your life. >> clearly. >> it was, yes, no doubt, no doubt. >> rose: you became friends? >> no, we had a-- he wanted me to write a flattering book about apple. i had approached him about writing a book about apple in the early 1980s when nothing had been written about it. but i was interested in trying to get into really understanding how difficult it was to build a company.